Comparison between the Catholic Church and the Presbyterian Church

http://zoelarwill.blogspot.com 
Introduction

It was a great experience to have the opportunity to go to a Catholic Church and a Presbyterian Church for the first time.  Some of the similarities found between these churches, in terms of history and theology, were quite surprising.  However, there were still quite a lot of differences in their founding history and beliefs but especially in their systems of governance.

History

The history of the Roman Catholic Church and the Presbyterian Church are similar in some ways.  For example, both churches believe that Jesus Christ founded the Christian church. (www.ehow.co.uk/) Although John Calvin separated from the Catholic Church, he was originally a Catholic priest, so there are some connections to the history of both churches.  However, the founding of both denominations is also extremely different.  The Catholic Church had a slow development with many different leaders adding new ideas.  Pope Leo I introduced the idea that the pope in Rome was the successor to Peter (from Matthew 16: 18-19).  By 606, Pope Boniface III was given the title of the “universal bishop”.   (http://www.allaboutreligion.org/ )  However, the Presbyterian Church has mainly one founder, John Knox, who established the denomination much later, in 1560, although his beliefs are based around those of John Calvin (Shelly, 1982:280).

Theology

The theology of the Catholic and Presbyterian churches has some similarities.  For example, both believe in the Trinity, infant baptism, Holy Communion, confirmation and the Bible. (www.ehow.co.uk/)  Nevertheless, the theology is also what makes these churches totally different. Catholics believe that it is the free will of people that determines their salvation, whereas the Presbyterians believe in predestination, as God sovereignly chooses who will be saved. In a sense Catholics do believe in the predestination of the elect, but they do not agree with the fact that God would chose a certain group of people that would go to heaven and therefore, choose the rest of the world to go to hell. (http://socrates58.blogspot.com/) Although, they do believe in God’s role in people’s free will; "We are able to choose God because God first chose us”. (http://www.religionfacts.com/)  Catholics also believe in transubstantiation – that the bread and wine actually become the real body and blood of Christ. However, the Presbyterians believe that when Jesus said “this is my body broken for you… this is my blood, shed for you” (1 Corinthians 11:24-26) it was metaphorical and the sacraments are just symbols of His sacrifice. (http://wiki.answers.com/)  Presbyterians only have communion a few times a year, this shows that they do not consider this sacrament as important as Catholics.  Also, Catholics pray to saints who have died, whereas Presbyterians believe the Christians should only pray directly to God. (Estep 1986:307)

Governance

Regarding governance, there are hardly any similarities between the Catholic and Presbyterians systems.  According to the First Vatican Council, in 1870, the Bishop of Rome is the direct successor of the Apostle Peter; therefore he must be the head of the Roman Catholic Church. (Shelly 1982:150)  There are also archbishops, bishops and priests under him.  The clergy are elevated to a more spiritual position to the congregation; they wear expensively decorated gowns and stand on a raised altar at the front of the church.  The priest also has control over everything that happens in the actual church service and are the only ones holy enough to serve communion.  However, the way Presbyterians run their church is almost the complete opposite.  The word, Presbyterian, means “ruling elder” and comes from the Greek New Testament. (www.ehow.co.uk/)   This is because John Calvin hated the corruption in the Catholic leadership.  His system of governance was much more focussed on the early church model.  Therefore, in the Presbyterian Church, elders are chosen by the congregation and they run the church, rather than one senior pastor.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the Catholic Church and the Presbyterian Church have some core similarities, for example that Jesus is the founder of the Christian faith and the bible is the word of God.  However, there are many different practices and beliefs, especially in how the church is governed.

Bibliography:

Armstrong, Dave. 2006. “Do Catholics Believe in Predestination?” [Internet], http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/08/do-catholics-believe-in-predestination.html, 26 March 2011.

Brumbaugh, Miranda. 2010. “Similarities of Presbyterians & Catholics.” [Internet], http://www.ehow.co.uk/list_7592779_similarities-presbyterians-catholics.html, 26 March 2011.

Estep, William R.  Renaissance and Reformation.  Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans, 1986.

2011. “History of the Catholic Church.” [Internet], http://www.allaboutreligion.org/history-of-the-catholic-church-faq.htm, 26 March 2011.

2011. “What is the difference between the Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church?” [Internet], http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_the_Presbyterian_Church_and_the_Catholic_Church, 26 March 2011.

Shelly, Bruce L.  Church History in Plain Language.  Dallas: Word Publishing, 1982.

2011. “Comparison of Christian Denominations' Beliefs.” [Internet], http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/charts/denominations_beliefs.htm, 26 March 2011.

Response to Zoe Larwill’s Creek Road Presbyterian Blog

This blog was interesting and contained very useful information. I thought that it was very interesting that she stated how many times a year Creek Road Presbyterian Church and more traditional Presbyterian Churches have communion. When I visited the church, I noticed that they did not have communion, but I would not have thought that they had communion so few times throughout the year. It was also helpful how she explained about Pastor Phil Strong, who I also spoke with, reading John Calvin’s works and about how he believes that some of his works are correct while others are incorrect. She also stated that Creek Road Presbyterian Church believes in the bible first and then in the writings of John Calvin. Her quote from Pastor Phil’s showed good evidence for her observation. He stated that “sometimes Calvin is misunderstood and sometimes Calvin was wrong just like Church Pastors can be, but God is always right”. This is very effective because it emphasises what Pastor Phil believes, he also said this to me, but she was able to recognise the importance of this statement. She then went on to explain that Presbyterians are followers of Jesus Christ, not John Calvin, which I think is an important difference. One point that Zoe stated was that the Presbyterians believe that if you belong to God, you will go to heaven and if not you will go to hell. This is not necessarily true because we all belong to God, but it is determined by whether or not we have chosen to put our trust in Him and have accepted Him into our lives. When talking about liturgy, she stated that the sermon was not based on a topic with scriptures that supported it, but that it was based on a certain passage of the bible and scenarios were based on that passage. I noticed this too, which is interesting because that means that this point is something that she does not find in her own church, as I have found. Overall, Zoe’s blog is excellent, it is filled with interesting facts about Presbyterian theology and I agree with a lot of the points that she found when she attended Creek Road Presbyterian Church.

Presbyterian Church - Creek Road Presbyterian Church

Creek Road Presbyterian Church
Welcome Pack

Creek Road Presbyterian Church
Business Card

I must admit that I wasn’t very excited about visiting a Presbyterian Church because, from my experience at other non-Pentecostal, Protestant churches, I was expecting it to be quite boring and unappealing. Creek Road Presbyterian Church is on the corner of Creek Road and Fursden Road, Carina. In a small group, my friends and I visited the church on the 6^th of March 2011. It is possibly one of the most modern Presbyterian churches in Brisbane, so I found my visit to this church very intriguing.  The information I learned was very useful and changed a lot of my views towards the Presbyterian belief.  

History


The Presbyterian Church was founded on the doctrines of John Calvin, one of the men who reformed the Catholic Church. He wrote the Institutes of the Christian Religion in 1536 which explained reformed theology.  Calvin was based in Switzerland but his theology was very similar to Martin Luther’s – the doctrines of original sin, justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers and the sole authority of the Scriptures.  In Scotland, John Knox established the Presbyterian Church in 1560, based on Calvin’s teachings.  The minister that was spoken with said that the Presbyterian Church likes to be known as the Reformed Catholic Church because the original Catholic Church is known as the Roman Catholic Church.History

Theology

Like other Calvinists, Presbyterians believe in predestination because Calvin said that God is omnipotent and controls all things, including who will be saved.  This built on Luther’s teaching on justification by faith but focussed more on God’s role in salvation.  When talking to one of the pastors of the Creek Road Presbyterian Church, a peer asked what the core beliefs of the Presbyterians were. He answered that they were: “faith only, Christ only and Scriptures only”. These three points are the core beliefs of many Protestants – especially Christ only.  No matter whether you are the kindest or greatest person in the world, you will not go to heaven unless you have accepted Jesus into your life. However, the important focus in this church was the sovereignty of God in choosing the elect. John Calvin believed that God has chosen specifically the people that will be going to heaven when they die. These ‘elect’ were set apart, lived moral lives and followed God’s commandments. No one could determine who these people were, but they strongly believed that a person’s spiritual life and behaviour would reflect whether they would be in the elect.

Governance

Unlike the Catholic Church, John Calvin’s system of governance was much more focussed on the early church model with elders making all the decisions.  Therefore, in the Presbyterian Church, elders run the church and make all the decisions, rather than one senior pastor.  The congregation chooses the minister but it is the elders who have the greatest authority.  This is a very interesting difference and not the same as most other churches I have been to.  This is also very different to what I’m used to in the Pentecostal church where the senior pastor sets the vision for the church. However, Creek Road Presbyterian Church still has members of staff that include people such as Children’s pastors and youth pastors, which is much the same as many Pentecostal churches.

Liturgy

Liturgy is defined as the worship or other customary practices of a church. This includes certain prayers that they may recite or practices such as communion. However, in the service attended, communion was not taken, but may be taken at various times throughout the year. Also, the way Presbyterians preach is very different to that of Pentecostals, especially their focus point. A peer who attends that church pointed out that Presbyterians preach about a particular verse in the bible and base scenarios around that verse, but Pentecostal churches focus on a scenario and base Scriptures around that scenario. This was interesting because in many ways it is very true, but I had never thought about it like that. Also, the pastor that preached stood very still when he spoke; he had a pulpit that he stood at and did not move from behind it.

Music

In my church, I like to jump around and lift my hands while worshipping. When I visited the Presbyterian Church, the pastor explained that they do not discourage the congregation from lifting their hands, but they do not see the need for this action. This was very interesting as I have always thought that as a basic rule of the Presbyterians, you cannot raise your hands. I was also surprised that the congregation actually sings modern songs, for example Hillsong and Chris Tomlin, as well as some hymns.

Conclusion

Creek Road Presbyterian Church is an interesting church because you can easily see the similarities with some other denominations. It was established in Scotland by John Knox and focuses on the teachings of John Calvin.  The preaching is based on scriptures from the bible and they sing mostly modern worship songs.  I am glad that I had the opportunity to visit there.

Bibliography:

Burke, David and Hughes, Philip J. 1996. The Presbyterian Church in Australia. Canberra: Brown Prior Anderson Pty Ltd.

Fairchild, Mary. 2011. “Presbyterian Church Beliefs and Practices.” [Internet], http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/a/Presbyterian.htm, 15 March 2011.  

Fairchild, Mary. 2011. “Presbyterian Church History.” [Internet], http://christianity.about.com/od/presbyteriandenomination/a/presbyhistory.htm, 15 March 2011.

2011. “Liturgy.” [Internet], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy, 29 March 2011.

Interview with Pastor Phil Strong at Creek Road Presbyterian Church on 6 March 2011

Observations at Creek Road Presbyterian Church, attended on 6 March 2011

Shelly, Bruce L.  Church History in Plain Language.  Dallas: Word Publishing, 1982.

The Catholic Church - St Stephen's Cathedral

On the 15^th of February 2011, I visited St Stephen’s Cathedral in Brisbane city with all the history students of Citipointe Christian College.  Whilst it was just a Tuesday mass rather than a full church service, I learned a lot about Catholic worship and beliefs.  The style was very different to what I’m used to, however, it was a good experience and it is useful to know more about the history of the Catholic Church.

History

The Catholics believe that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church in 33 AD.  It is hard to say when the Catholic Church actually started, but after the conversion of Constantine, in 313, Christianity became the state religion.  Pope Leo I then claimed that the pope in Rome was ruler over the whole church. He said that Jesus appointed the apostle Peter as the first vicar or pope. He used Matthew 16: 18-19 to support this belief. "And I say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the Kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shalt be loosed in heaven." (KJV)  In 445, the Emperor Valentinian III made Pope Leo I’s claim into a law. In 606, Pope Boniface III was given the title of the “universal bishop”. This marked the official beginning of the worldwide Roman Catholic Church.

Theology                               

The St Stephens Cathedral building is used instead of literature to tell the Christian story.  It was built in the shape of a cross, with beautiful stained glass windows signifying different parts of the Bible.  Most of the stained glass windows were of the Holy family and had Latin writing.  The Blessed Sacrament Chapel at the back of the Cathedral holds the tabernacle – the leftovers from the communion bread and wine.  Catholics believe in transubstantiation – that the bread and wine actually become the real body and blood of Christ.  They also believe in predestination – God chooses whether they go to heaven or not, but also that it is the free will of people that determines their salvation.  In other words there is human free will but God still plans everything.  Hanging in front of the pipe organ was one horizontal post of the cross with Jesus on it.  This was so that you could see Jesus’ pain and suffering.  One arm was slightly above the horizontal cross which the guide told us symbolises that he has risen/will rise again.  The Roman Catholic Church believes that people particularly receive the Holy Spirit through baptism.  For salvation, they must have faith in Jesus, be baptised and live a holy life. I thought that there were many things the same as what I believe, although not everything.   

Governance

The Pope is the father of the whole church and there are archbishops, bishops and priests under him.  The importance of the bishop and priests in St Stephen’s Church could be seen because the altar, pulpit and bishop’s chair were all made of marble.  During the mass, there were many prayers that we were required to say aloud with the priest.  It seemed that the priest had complete control of everything that happened.  Also, in the far left hand side of the Cathedral was a confessional which is a small curtained room where the priest listens to peoples’ sins and grants forgiveness on behalf of God.  This is very different to the Pentecostal understanding of the role of the pastor who is just a normal person like everyone else.

Liturgy

Everything about the liturgy of St Stephen’s Cathedral was completely different to what I’m used to.  When we first arrived, just inside the doorway was a person who would provide information on the Cathedral or the Catholic Church.  Just beside the doorway was the Shrine of Women which held two statues of Ruth and Mary; this is where women go to pray. On the other side, was another shrine containing a holy rock from Jerusalem.  One thing a definitely noticed was that the mass was extremely formal with a lot of sitting and standing at different times.  The congregation would also repeat set psalms and prayers after the priest in a very formal pattern.  Although Catholic masses used to be done only in Latin, in the 20^th century they were modernised and can now be said in English.

Music

There was no music at all during the whole mass which was surprising; only the priest sang one song during the incense procession. However, during a Sunday service two choirs sing accompanied by a Jubilee pipe organ. St Stephens Catholic Church is very proud of their music programme and they are glad that music is a gift of God that can be used to worship Him.

Conclusion

St Stephens Cathedral is a beautiful representation of the Christian story. The mass that I attended was much more formal than I’m used to, but many of the different points of view and the different Catholic beliefs studied were very interesting. This experience may be very valuable for future discipleship, as it will change the way Protestants approach discussions with Catholics.   

Bibliography:

2011. “History of the Catholic Church.” [Internet], http://www.allaboutreligion.org/history-of-the-catholic-church-faq.htm, 26 March 2011.

2011. “The History of the Catholic Church.” [Internet],

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Catholic_Church, 19 March 2011.

“Music at the Cathedral of St Stephens.” [Internet], http://www.cathedralofststephen.org.au/music.htm, 26 March 2011.

Observations at St Stephen’s Catholic Church, attended on 15 February 2011

Interview with a Reverend of St Stephen’s Catholic Church on 15 February 2011

Shelly, Bruce L.  Church History in Plain Language.  Dallas: Word Publishing, 1982.